In Conversation: ‘A Lien’ Director David Cutler-Kreutz

by Nawal Chowdhury

A Lien (2023) is a 15-minute short film directed by brothers Sam and David Cutler-Kreutz, highlighting the burdensome process of obtaining U.S. citizenship. The Oscar-nominated short film follows the Gomez family as they encounter unexpected hurdles during a Green Card interview. We spoke with Filmmaker David Cutler-Kreutz about the complexities in the U.S. immigration system, challenges during production, and the future plans of the filmmaking duo. 

This interview has been edited for clarity.

Before we begin, I wanted to give you guys your flowers on this amazing call-to-action film. As a child of immigrants who has experienced some of the fears shown in this film, it means a lot to me that this film was created. 

I heard that you guys are nominated for an Oscar. I wanted to congratulate you on that. How did you guys celebrate? What was your initial reaction after hearing the news?

We were definitely both surprised. Our whole film, you know, everyone who's been involved has been involved as a labor of love. This film was made on a total shoestring budget, with a little bit of bubble gum. We were both so incredibly appreciative that people have found resonance with the film.

That's awesome. I really want to get to know you guys as filmmakers who are also brothers. I thought that was really interesting. What motivated you two to begin filmmaking and what led to this amazing brother duo? 

It's been a really amazing process. Sam has always been in filmmaking . . . [he] studied film in school and went on to work as a commercial cinematographer for quite a few years. I didn't go to film school, but we grew up together. We shared a room. We grew up telling stories together. We didn't have a TV in our house and so all we did was walk around our neighborhood, find [the] woods nearby, and tell each other stories. And so we kind of continued doing that. We actually started writing together quite a few years ago . . . I think the first project we worked on together was nine years ago, and it was just so easy . . . it was so easy to get to tell stories with your brother, and you know, we're best friends [so] that was such a simple thing and so much fun.

I have a sister and we get along very well, but we do have our fair share of fights. So, I was wondering if you two have had any sibling quarrels while you guys were producing or directing, and how have you settled them?

Honestly, I don't think Sam and I've ever had a fight. So, no. It's so easy. I think for both of us, we just feel super aligned. We feel like, in general, we're almost always on the same page. And if we're not, you know, for us, it's about what's best for the story, what's best for the film. And I think that for us is really the focus at all times . . . I think we're always hoping the other person is going to come up with a cooler, smarter, more aligned thing for the film because that just makes the film better. So, I think we feel really collaborative in that way, which is such a delight. 

That just makes it easier to get the job done, right?

So I know this film delves into the complex and gruesome nature of the U.S. immigration process. Was there a specific experience that influenced this film? Why was this the particular topic that you guys wanted to shed light on?

We first found out about this specific ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) [and] Green Card entrapment process in 2018. Sam and I are always passing stuff back and forth. Our films come about through dialog and that dialog ranges from talking about films to talking about our lives to talking about our history and unpacking our family's history . . . We learned about this process in 2018 and it just stuck with us . . . You know how inhumane it is that folks who are going to try and go through the legal process to get a green card, become a US citizen, go to their required interview, and then end up getting detained? 

I think it struck both of us as feeling like, “What can we do to advocate against this practice, and how can we shed light on the practice in general?” [It] felt very much like, obviously we're just looking at one hyper-specific thing in immigration, but we felt like, in some ways, it felt emblematic of the larger experience of the immigration process, which is one that's so filled with paperwork and bureaucracy and red tape and waiting and anxiety. And so I think it felt like a lens through which [we could] talk about a larger set of issues.

I was very intrigued by how the title is stylized. It reads as “alien,” but it's separated into “a” and “lien”. What was the decision behind that? Is there symbolism behind it?

There's a really interesting kind of dichotomy. We thought it was interesting that lien as a financial tool [is] all about possession. It's all about ownership. It's about being owed something and about getting it back. We thought that was a really interesting component in this process. It's a legal language and legal process, a lien. We thought it's  interesting that [the word] alien, of course, speaks to the more human side of being at home versus being away. Being an “alien,” being an “outsider” versus being an “American.” The space of those [words] being mashed together, we felt like, was fundamentally at the heart of this film. In some way, it's like, if you're in this country and you're here without proper identification, the country is coming to get what it's due. We thought it spoke to the heart of the tension of this film and what this film is about.

There's separation there. You're breaking apart something. We thought it had all of these interesting meanings that we felt played into the entire film in one word or two words. 

I think it's a great way to catch some people's attention. 

During the writing process of this film, were there any immigrants, legal experts, or advocacy groups that were consulted?

Yes, absolutely. One of the things that we really wanted to make sure [of] was that we were trying to tell a story that felt accurate and authentic to many people's experiences. Obviously, immigration is a huge space with a lot of people having different experiences. We talked with many lawyers as well as many people who had gone through similar processes to try and give a realistic perspective on what it's like to go through the process. When we were on set, we actually had many folks who were working on the film who had gone through similar processes. 

I think one of the pieces that's been really exciting, as much as I think it's depressing, is so many folks have come up to us after the film had been released to say, “I was so moved by the film because it felt like it gave a voice to my experience as an immigrant.” I think we've heard that over and over again from folks who have gone through the process that the film spoke to the anxiety and spoke to their feelings of going through this process.

I think this film was a great way to spark that conversation. Were there any specific challenges that you guys faced? 

We made this film on a totally, like, almost no money [budget] and trying to figure out how we shoot a film that's supposed to be set in a USCIS (United States Citizenship and Immigration Services) government building when we absolutely have no access to be shooting in a USCIS building or almost any other government building [was challenging]. So, how do we find some way that can feel appropriate? We scouted locations for eight months . . . We found a school in New Jersey that we could film at that we felt had enough of the look to feel like the building that we were hoping to portray and to make you feel like you were in it.

I didn't even realize that it was a school. That was a great choice.

I'm sure there are a lot of aspiring filmmakers who are also looking to create films that spark conversations like yours. Do you have any advice for them?

I think we were trying, in this film, to walk a line between telling this story that is really intense and trying to ask, “How do we tell a story [like this] in 14 minutes and not have it feel over the top?” We were constantly [thinking], “What feels over the top? How do we pull it back? How do we continue to pull back and also keep the authenticity? . . . How do we keep that authenticity but not create melodrama that feels over the top?” I think that line is one we felt we were trying to walk the entire time. From an advice perspective, try to be really conscious of  how you make sure that you're portraying everyone fairly. I think that that was something that we really worked hard to have at the core of the film. How are we trying to honestly portray everyone in this film without saying we're just going to talk about federal agents in a certain way and instead say these are people who are working their day job? They see tons of applicants. They're trying their hardest and yet they're in a system that is set up for it to fail for our characters.

Thank you so much for your time. I wanted to ask one last question before we part. What is next for you guys? Are there any upcoming projects that you're excited about and eager to share with the world?

Yeah, absolutely. We have another film that's currently in the festival circuit right now called Trapped. Hopefully, [it] will be out at some point. It actually won [an award] at South by Southwest this past year. And we are working on our debut feature film right now.